In the second episode of AMT Lab’s Art + Climate podcast series, the conversation continues with Jennifer Torrance, Phipps Conservatory and Botanical Gardens’ Youth Climate Advocacy Committee (YCAC) Coordinator. 

In this episode, she talks about her experience attending the recent United Nations Climate Conference, or COP28, with YCAC leader and University of Pittsburgh senior, Anna Bagwell. Though attending a COP conference may be “like trying to drink from a firehose,” Torrance unpacks what a day might look like - from meeting with your observer constituency group and sitting in on negotiations, to networking and other sessions. She also shares some of her key takeaways for cultural organizations, including joining a network like the Climate Toolkit for Museums, Gardens, and Zoos presented by Phipps. 

For more information about Torrance’s work with YCAC and engaging young people in the climate movement, listen to Part One. 

Transcription

Hannah Brainard

Thank you for listening to another episode of Tech in the Arts, the podcast series of the Arts Management and Technology Laboratory at Carnegie Mellon University. The goal of our podcast series is to exchange ideas, bring awareness and stay on top of the trends.

My name is Hannah Brainard, my pronouns are she/her, and I’m the lead researcher with AMT Lab. In this series, we’re exploring the intersections of climate and the arts through interviews with leaders across disciplines. We hope you’ll learn more about  actions you or your organization can take toward a more sustainable future. 

Today, I’m joined by Jennifer Torrence, a science educator and the Youth Climate Advocacy Committee (YCAC) Coordinator at Phipps Conservatory and Botanical Gardens. 

Founded in 1893, Phipps maintains 15 acres of beautiful green space in Pittsburgh, including a 14-room glasshouse and 23 distinct gardens. Phipps also has industry-leading sustainable architecture and green practices, stunning seasonal flower shows, exclusive commissioned exhibits, and more.

In the second part of this two-part interview, Jennifer and I discuss her experience at COP28, and key takeaways for arts and cultural organizations. 

Hannah Brainard 

So I'm gonna pivot a little bit, and I want to talk about COP28, which you went to. Was that your first time attending a cop conference? Or had you been previously?

Jennifer Torrance 

I went to COP26. Okay, it's very fortunate to be able to go to COP26 in Glasgow, along with our Director of Research and Science Education and our President & CEO. And while I was at COP26, I was connected with YOUNGO, which is the official children and youth constituency of the United Nations. And I made such great connections there. And so when I went back for COP28, that was kind of like our big role. And that's, I think that was a huge reason why we were able to take a young person because of the connection with those incredible YOUNGO members who are kind of leading the charge at COP. 

Hannah Brainard

Yeah, so I wonder if you could talk more a little bit about that? You brought a committee member with you, a student - a college student?

Jennifer Torrance

Yes, a college student. 

Hannah Brainard 

So what was it like sort of helping mentor a student going for their first time? 

Jennifer Torrance 

So I, I mean, I cannot even express how much I admire the students who are part of YCAC for their hard work, their dedication and just their overall capability. And so, the student who I brought, her name is Anna Bagwell. She actually is a founding member of YCAC. She started in YCAC when she was a sophomore at Pitt, and now she's a senior. But she has been a leader for two years now. And she has just shown incredible creativity, thoughtfulness, collaboration, mentoring of other students, she's incredibly kind. I can't say enough good things about Anna. 

And I was so happy when I heard that our president and CEO was planning to send a student with me, and that it was Anna.

Because Anna has just put so much hard work into YCAC, and she has been an incredible voice for other young people. And for bringing, like uplifting youth voices and like bringing that perspective to the stage. She's so eloquent and well spoken,  and just such a put together human being. I need to borrow skills from her. So, a lot of really what I was doing was helping her connect with the people I had met at COP26. 

Jennifer Torrance 

I work in what's called the ACE working group or the Action for Climate Empowerment working  group. Action for Climate Empowerment is a term adopted by the UNFCCC, the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, that is in regards to some work in the Paris Agreement and in the COP process, regarding involving the general public in climate action, and kind of that idea of climate change, education, public participation and awareness, public access to accurate information about climate change and international cooperation. Kind of that sharing of resources and working with each other to uplift everyone in society and make sure that all members of society do have a role in the climate movement. 

And that aligns so well with what we do and YCAC and what we do at Phipps in general. We have a program called the Climate Toolkit that's all about uplifting museums, gardens, zoos, and other institutions like that to talk more about climate and engage their audiences in the climate movement. 

And so I was very lucky that I was connected with these folks in the ACE working group through YOUNGO. And I was able to bring Anna into that space, help her also connect with the young people working on that. And from there, we were able to do more at this COP28, then I was able to do at COP26, which was all about action for climate empowerment. But I didn't have that knowledge going into COP26 of, like, what to do there. And COP is so overwhelming. For anyone who's thinking of going -  definitely do, but just a forewarning that it's like trying to drink from a firehose. There's so much going on. 

Jennifer Torrance

Most of the time, if you're able to get a Blue Zone badge, which means that you are in the space where negotiations are happening like you are where the action is, you are likely part of an observer constituency. Phipps is actually part of the environmental NGOs or nongovernmental organizations constituency, and YOUNGO was another one. So I am part of YOUNGO. And I'm also through Phipps, part of Environmental NGOs. And so likely you have to - right off the bat - you have to stand in line for like, a minimum half an hour, sometimes longer. Go through screening every day of COP, they check your bags like going through the airport, they check your badge. You need a badge to get in. And then you probably have a daily coordination meeting. And if you are in two different observer constituencies, those are happening at the same time. So you better pick. 

We chose to go to YOUNGO because it was most relevant for Anna and what we were doing. So you go to your coordination meeting. In your coordination meeting, the folks there, the contact points for that observer constituency are going to tell you everything they've learned from the UNFCCC, from the Secretariat, like any information they have for the day. So what negotiations are happening, what bilaterals are happening.  Bilaterals are meetings between two parties. So it could be like a group maybe say it's like the mitigation working group from YOUNGO and Colombia’s delegation. Like they could be in a meeting room together being like, “Here's the text that we have drafted. Colombia, what do you think? Would you like to carry this text into negotiations?” 
So there's bilateral meetings you can attend. Oftentimes, you have to work with your observer constituency to get into those meetings. There's press conferences happening that you can go to. There are so many side events going on. And then there's all this stuff in the Green Zone as well. The green zone is where if you don't get a Blue Zone badge to be where the negotiations are, you can get a Green Zone badge, which is more open to anyone kind of like working in the environmental field or kind of, like with the public in general. And there's just like a lot of networking, a lot of talks, a lot of it's more like a conference, right? It's more like, you wander into a session, and something cool happens, and you meet some cool people. It doesn't have the access to the negotiations that the Blue Zone does, but still a lot of really cool things happen there.

So there's all of that happening as well. And then on top of that, you probably have work that you need to do for your observer constituency. You probably need to help draft a text that you're going to present to negotiators. And you need to be in the negotiation rooms as well following what's going on. And if you are, if you go in how we went in trying to get into some of the more popular negotiations, you best be in line half an hour before or you're not gonna get in. 

So, there's a limited number of seats in negotiation rooms. The parties get first access to the seats, right? Like, of course a nation that's part of the negotiations needs a seat in the room. So parties or nations or groups of nations that are negotiating, get the first access to the seats. And then observers form a line, or sometimes a giant clump, outside of the room. And once all the party is in, then you can fill in any seats that are in there. But if there's not a seat, you're not allowed to stand - out you go. You have to stand there and wait and see if anyone leaves. So

getting access to the rooms is a challenge. There's a lot of there's just so much going on at COP, it's hard to kind of sum it all up. 

Hannah Brainard  

So, is there any part that you would think was most rewarding for you? Or maybe that you got the most out of? 

Jennifer Torrance 

I think the most rewarding part was - we followed negotiations on the global stocktake, which was essentially looking at the Paris agreement. And, did we do what we said we were going to do? Which we didn't. Sorry, world. And then how do we go from here? 

Like, how do we get back on track. And that was really interesting to be in the room. And seeing that all happen, it was really frustrating to be in the room and seeing a lot of the arguments that broke out, and the unwillingness to cooperate. But what was really rewarding about it was that we had that first hand view of it, we could see what was going on, we could see which nations probably needed someone from YOUNGO to walk over and say, “Hey, I represent young people in the world. And the things you are proposing are not helping young people and are not providing a future for us that is going to be livable.”

And so having that knowledge of who needs to be approached was really neat. And another really, really rewarding part of this was we also followed the Action for Climate Empowerment, or ACE, negotiations, we didn't even know there were going to be ace negotiations, because a lot of that was tackled at COP26 and COP27. But there were negotiations regarding ACE. We were able to get into those. And that is a much smaller group. At least at this COP, it was a much smaller group. We actually had connections through YOUNGO with negotiators, with members, with parties from the G77, which is a group of 135 developing nations. And a lot of what they want, young people also want like our interests align. So we were able to work with them to draft a piece of text regarding financing for ACE initiatives, and bringing up finance for ACE in future dialogues and making sure that is a topic that is talked about. Because, it's all well and good, but when you're telling people “get the public involved,” and then not providing any funding for it. That's not helpful. No one can do anything with that. And a lot of the pushback in those negotiations were “Oh, well, you can just have volunteers.” Volunteers can only get you so far. Volunteers are amazing, but you can't just you can't just lump finance in with what some nations are trying to lump in tools and support. They're saying, “Oh, well, finance falls under tools and support.” But finance unless it is direct, like specifically and directly named, we probably won't see it.  

So it was really rewarding to be able to work with those negotiators on that text. They provided edits to what we submitted, of course, and they brought it to the table. And, getting to see nations working on that text together and saying “I don't like this part. But I'm going to  agree with this part. I want to add this in.”

At the end of the day, the text didn't go through, but that doesn't mean it's off the table. They will be bringing it back onto the table, hopefully at Bonn, which is the climate conference that happens in between the COPs, so that will be in June. And the G77 actually invoked Rule 16, which means that the text that everyone was working on regarding finance for ACE had become so watered down that they were like, “this is not meaningful. We are not going to send this through until it's strong language that actually accomplishes what we want it to accomplish. And all of the other work that we've done so far on other aspects of ACE - we're not going to send that through either,  because we want all of it to be in one bundle. We don't want there to be a chance of this never being brought up again.”

So it was a strategic move, it was a disappointing move for a lot of people because then no text regarding ACE came out of those negotiations for COP28. But, there's also a chance that at Bonn, it can come back and it can be even stronger language. So it was a little bit bittersweet, but very rewarding to be part of that. We were actively involved in that. Anna went up to negotiators from the United States and asked them to support the G77. And we saw in the next round of negotiations, that the United States did start working on that text from the G77, and actually broke a stalemate where nations were like, “I either like this one provided by the EU, or I like this one provided by the G77.” And no one was willing to work on either text. And so that was neat, like, we got to be part of that, we got to see that. We got to talk to the representative from the G77 about the text and thank her for bringing that forward and pushing such an important issue. And that's not something that you normally get to do, right? That's not everyone who goes to COP - not most people who go to COP get a chance to do something like that. So very rewarding in that way. 

Hannah Brainard  

And I think about, I don't know how uplifting it must be to be in a room of people who kind of see things similarly to you to be in this really tight environment for a week, thinking about the issues of climate and how you can address them. And I wonder if the transition coming out of that is any trouble? Like do you have any challenge with that? And you're like, “Oh, not everybody is as passionate about climate.”

Jennifer Torrance 

Yes, definitely. So being in those morning meetings, every morning with the young people who are so passionate and so driven, and hearing about all the opportunities from to be involved in COP from other young people like that was just so empowering, thinking like, “Wow, that's something I want to bring back to our committee.” And that's something that I really hope to continue trying to bring back for our committee. But yeah, coming back, I think a lot of it was just like, I miss, I miss that. You know, I miss being able to just like walk over and be like, “Hey, person, from YOUNGO,  what do you think of this,” right? Or - It's the people, right? I think the people that you meet at COP, especially in your observer constituency -  and for me, especially the folks in YOUNGO - you form such an attachment to them, because you're working alongside them on these really heavy topics for a week, or two, or three, depending on how long COP goes. And you form such a bond with them, because you're tackling something together. You can see the difference that you're making together, and it just feels so special.

And so coming back and realizing like “oh, like all these friends I made are across the entire world now.” Right, like, now I have a friend in the Netherlands, and a friend in Vietnam, and a friend in Hong Kong, and a friend in Japan, and a friend in France, and a friend in Ohio - which is great.  But they're so far away, and you miss that camaraderie day to day. The good news is that the work continues on. And we have calls that we can jump on, like, we have ACE working group calls where I can jump on his screen and see them all again, and then feel that excitement all over again. 

It actually gives me some hope coming back, because when you come back to somewhere like the United States where there's, you know, there's still a small minority of people who don't believe in climate change, but they're very loud. And I think it reminds you that, like “Oh, they're just loud. There's not actually that many of them.”

And at the end of the day, those aren’t the people that we need to engage with anyway. It doesn't really matter if we engage those people or not, because if we engage the people who care about climate change, and just don't know what to do about it, that's the majority of us. Yeah, that's where we can have the biggest impact. And if we can have all of these young people working together at COP on these huge issues, we can definitely bring together other people as well, that care about the same things and find them an avenue to take action and find a way for them to engage. 

And again, that public participation, like, I develop so many skills that COP in how to engage the public, and so did Anna. And now the two of us are a team, right? Then, we are creating a larger team in the YCAC, and hopefully they are creating a larger team in their own communities. And then you can really see the work being done. 

Hannah Brainard  

There's so much power in the collective. And there's so many people who do believe in climate change and want to take action, but they're like, Well, maybe nobody else believes this, maybe I should keep to myself. But coming out and talking about it openly creating these communities for young people to take action is so powerful. I do want to talk about some of the controversy around COP28, if you don't mind. The country that it was held, the President's elected has a lot of power in the fossil fuel industry. I have to read the quote that there was, the president claimed that there was “no science behind a fossil fuel phase out” - some of these phrases just were disheartening. And so I kind of wonder what your experience was like there? If you felt the impact of that in your ability of take action - what that looked like?

Jennifer Torrance 

Definitely, so there were more fossil fuel lobbyists at COP 28. than there have ever been. I believe they outnumbered indigenous people, seven to one, I would have to double check that number. And you could see, unfortunately, their influence on certain nations who were blocking specific language regarding fossil fuel phase out. And yes, I mean, having the COP president say, “there's no science backing up a fossil fuel phase out”. I mean, immediately, what happened was everyone just started, like, chanting and posting, “he doesn't believe in science,” which he quickly backpedaled on and was like, I do believe in science. 

And it was kind of funny. And maybe I shouldn't say this on air. But it was kind of like, I'm watching. Like, a no, a child who said something mean, getting called out and then being like, “Nuh-uh, I didn’t say that.”  Well, everyone else was like, “We heard you say that, like, knock it off.”  And I think it was - I hope at least - it was a little humbling for him to realize that you might think that you have a certain amount of power in this role, but you don't have the ability to change people's minds on this. Hosting COP28 to try to, you know, promote your own agenda didn't work. We weren't here for it. We showed up. We said no thank you to your garbage. And we continued on, right?  We did get language that was at least something - it wasn't a fossil fuel phase out - but it was a transition, and that was historical, too. 

So was it the outcome we wanted? No. But it was also better than, I think, what could have happened. And I think the COP President probably didn't want that language in there, and we got it through anyway. So I will say, also, that this is not the first time that COP has been held in a nation that is very - let's say I guess - supportive of fossil fuels. It's not the first time that this has happened. And it's also not the last time it's going to happen, looking ahead to future COPs.  And so we need to continue that fight, right? Like we need to keep showing up because we have to show the world that “Go ahead. Put COP in an in a country that wants to keep producing fossil fuels, make the head of an oil company, the President, we're still going to make change, we're still going to make things happen. And like this isn't going to stop us. This is going to unite us.”

Right?  Nothing unites people like a common enemy.  So was it great? No. But, it had benefits, I think, in bringing us all together and making us a larger force to be reckoned with. And I'm hoping that there was such outrage about this that they will put a ban on allowing fossil fuel lobbyists into COP. People, the whole time -  there were many protests about this and about the conflict of interest in this. And a lot of what people were saying was “You wouldn't have people from the tobacco industry in a health conference, so why are there fossil fuel lobbyists in a climate conference?”  Right? I heard that so many times. And a big chant was, “Don't be bought. Just say no. Fossil fuels have got to go.” 

And that idea that - it's coming to a point where people can't be bought, like, there, the money is not going to be worth the damage that's happening around the world. And just the funds needed for loss and damage alone, for helping nations that are most affected by climate change, and historically have done the least to cause it - that's already astronomical. And are we really going to continue that? Are we really going to continue letting small islands go underwater, and people lose their culture and their livelihood, and people having to move because their animals and their crops are dying? Like, we can't continue this.
And at some point, money is just not important anymore in this conversation, and people's lives are. And I think for all of us, like fighting the fight on the climate field, that's always been the case. But, you know, it's starting to come around that like the negotiators, the parties, are seeing like, “Okay, yes, maybe money is not as big of a deal and maybe in people's lives are.” It’s taken maybe 28 COPs too long.

Hannah Brainard  

That shouldn't be a hard conclusion to come to, but. 

Jennifer Torrance 

It shouldn't be hard to come to. And yet

Hannah Brainard  

But I love what you were saying - because I keep thinking of the “common enemy.” And I think there's so much of the negative things that maybe took place, but because of that, it was in the public sphere in a much bigger way than I had ever seen before. So I think, even though it was negative, it was calling attention to the work that was being done, and bringing up a lot of the positive change. So a little bit of silver lining. 

Jennifer Torrance 

For sure. I mean, COP28 was the more just attendance at any COP ever. And I can't remember the numbers exactly, but I know it was at least twice as big as COP26, which happened two years prior.  Maybe three times as big. Like, the sheer number of people that showed up to show their support for aggressive and ambitious climate action was really amazing to see. And, I think if this continues, unless they put a cap on the number of people, the next COP probably is going to be like, along a similar track, right? A lot of people are going “Well, if you're gonna allow that many fossil fuel lobbyists into COP, then we'll just bring our whole force. Like,  you want to double your size? We’ll triple our size.” Right? We're gonna keep it coming. 

Hannah Brainard  

People are longing to take action. You were talking about Phipps and other museums and botanical gardens and other institutions are really starting to join the conversation as well. What were some of your big takeaways from COP that maybe could apply to cultural institutions, things that you hope to see coming down the road? 

Jennifer Torrance 

Definitely get involved. I know there's a lot of fear, especially from your staff about having climate conversations with the public, because, again, the climate deniers are loud, and they can be aggressive. But if you have your staff’s back, if you set the expectations that they do not have to engage in that conversation, they're allowed to walk away, they do not need to take that sort of verbal abuse -  that frees them up to have meaningful conversations with people who do care about climate that are coming in your doors. And do so in a way that engages people that otherwise would not be engaged. I think there's a lot of benefit to creating spaces where people can come to feel refreshed, because the climate crisis is heavy. We need places to go and feel better. And Phipps is one of those places. And a lot of the climate conversations that we're having at Phipps are happening through our programming. And the average person coming in the door can still enjoy the beauty and respite that the conservatory offers. So we're able to offer both. And I think a lot of institutions can offer both. 

Another huge thing, get young people involved, young people at COP made just incredible amounts of progress, because they're bold, they have creative solutions ready. They're so brilliant, they're so passionate, and they have a ton of energy. Bring those people into conversation. And don't tokenize them.  Don't create any youthwashing  with your programming, like truly engage them, truly listened to them. Don't take a project of your own and make them do it and then say, “Oh, this is a youth project.” 

Let them lead the project. Let them design your museum spaces. Let them come up with topics to engage the public that are relevant and important, because they understand it. They know what's going to be meaningful to other young people, but also the wider community a lot of the time, they're so connected with what's going on around them. 

And, I think that would be like some of my biggest takeaways from COP, that I would encourage other institutions to do. 

And, for a shameless plug, join our Climate Toolkit, because it is a free network for museums, gardens, zoos, science centers, arboreta, aquaria, to share best practices with each other, and to support each other's work. And, if you don't want to join our climate toolkit, there are loads of other ways to get involved in the climate movement. And, a lot of it is just finding your people. Finding the people that are also doing the same work and hearing what has gone well for them, hearing their success stories and hearing, you know, what has been a challenge so that you can be prepared for what you want to do.

Hannah Brainard  

There are lots of available resources. I'm glad that you plugged the climate toolkit because just so much to learn. So many other organizations doing the work that you can kind of pick ideas from. It's been really fun to pick through some of that. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been so much fun to talk with you and learn more about YCAC and the fantastic climate work that you're involved in. So, thank you.

Jennifer Torrance

Thank you so much for having me. It has been such a joy and feel free to reach out -  listeners if you have any questions. My information is on the Phipps website. Or, if you know a young person who is interested in climate action, send them our way. We would love to have them in YCAC. Thanks. 

Hannah Brainard

Thank you for listening to the Climate Series on Tech in the Arts. Be on the lookout for new episodes coming to you very soon. If you found this episode informative, educational, or inspirational. Be sure to send this to another arts, climate or technology aficionado in your life. You can let us know what you think of this podcast by visiting our website amtlab.org. That's a-m-t dash l-a-b dot o-r-g. Or you can email us at amtlabcmu@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram at Tech in the arts or Facebook and LinkedIn at Arts Management and Technology Lab. We'll see you next time.